does it have to be bigger than 2008 for president obama to win? >> well, you know, i don't want to be -- you don't want to put too much stock in polls 40 days out, whether we're up, whether we're down, we're concentrating on that ground game. you mentioned the debates earlier in your opening comments, ed. you know, let's not discount the fact that mitt romney is an experienced and skilled debater. he -- >> he's been all over the map, congresswoman. i mean, the guy has been all over the map on health care, on taxes. i mean, he's -- huh? >> ed, keep in mind, though, he's a pretty decent closer. he's had a lot of time to prepare for these debates. during the democratic national convention, reportedly he did a week of debate prep camp. he's gone through 48 hours, done five debate practices. president obama has been practicing but he's got a day job, and he's been trying to balance that. >> i got to have some fun with this. he had a week of debate prep? and i must believe that the way he's been talking he's come out more confused from that debate prep than what we've seen. we've seen him stumble all over himself just in the last cycle, he contradicted himself yesterday on health care.